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Klee Panel Thread? Should we split again?
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fonik



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

good to have all the klee at one place!

would it be possible or desirable to move the thomas henry and the klee forum into the diy forum? kind of subforum? actually it IS diy. would apply to MFOS too.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Matthias the move you suggest is possible, whether it's desirable I don't know Very Happy

When I made the new Klee forum I first made it in DIY, but that looked ugly somehow and so I lifted it up, this can be changed though.

There has been a mention of lifting the DIY forum in it's entirety up one level to make it a top level forum just like the Clavia forum. The contribution count on DIY would certainly justify such a move IMO.

So thanks for bringing the subject up !
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fonik



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell wrote:
There has been a mention of lifting the DIY forum in it's entirety up one level to make it a top level forum just like the Clavia forum. The contribution count on DIY would certainly justify such a move IMO.

that's exactly what i thought. that would be great, i think.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

If we would move DIY up it seems natural to have TH and Klee in DIY, but as things are now they are very much hidden when in DIY. Circuit bending as well I guess, and maybe some software stuff even .. like ChucK.

Just throwing up some ideas here to see where they would fall Very Happy
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Not falling anywhere?
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

fonik wrote:
Blue Hell wrote:
There has been a mention of lifting the DIY forum in it's entirety up one level to make it a top level forum just like the Clavia forum. The contribution count on DIY would certainly justify such a move IMO.

that's exactly what i thought. that would be great, i think.


That would be a far better idea, imo Very Happy

DIY is just huge- and its become very confusing to navigate. So much that I tend to hang out else where- despite being moderator Laughing

This fuckin' place gives me a headache! Laughing

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IST NICHT FÜR GEWERKEN BEI DUMMKOPFEN. DER RUBBERNECKEN SIGHTSEEREN KEEPEN DAS COTTONPICKEN HÄNDER IN DAS POCKETS MUSS.
ZO RELAXEN UND WATSCHEN DER BLINKENLICHTEN.
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EdisonRex
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

yeah, the traffic on DIY and its children is impressive. Anything to make it more manageable. I don't have the answer though.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

EdisonRex wrote:
Children


yep that sums much of it out. It seems that all the adults have been ousted Shocked

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IST NICHT FÜR GEWERKEN BEI DUMMKOPFEN. DER RUBBERNECKEN SIGHTSEEREN KEEPEN DAS COTTONPICKEN HÄNDER IN DAS POCKETS MUSS.
ZO RELAXEN UND WATSCHEN DER BLINKENLICHTEN.
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blue hell
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Just moving DIY up would not make it better accessible ... it would need sub forums probably for that ... hmm well what else do we have for structuring ...
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blue hell
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

A suggestion :
    FAQ
    Books, links
    Theory
    PCB offers
    Build thread, help requests
    Build projects, project presentations
    MFOS
    Panels
    Circuit bending
    Micro controller based projects
    Equipment, tools, techniques
    Klee sequencer
    Tube stuff
    Thomas Henry
    Jürgen Haible
    Ian Fritz
    Wild ideas
    Other/general

Last edited by blue hell on Wed Nov 28, 2007 7:10 pm; edited 3 times in total
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I've been wondering a while if we shouldn't create a Juergen Haible subforum. Not that I want to get carried away with fora, but he's such a powerhouse, it might help people make sense of everything he's got on the table. A "Juergen Haible Designs" forum maybe? And how about an Ian Fritz forum, for that matter?

I do worry about getting things too dissipated, but I know for a fact splitting the Klee into a separate forum really helped a lot.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Good idea, I just added those to the list, of course we don't need 'm all.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm not getting too many reactions on this and I'm not sure what that means.

It could mean that people don't care, but it could also mean aproval or disapproval. So I'd like to see some more reactions Very Happy

I think the DIY section would benefit from some subsections, but this is something that I really don't want to push, if only it were because splitting it would mean moving a lot of posts to sub-fora and that job would be much lighter if many people could help.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have been thinking about it, but haven't come out with a position yet.

Maybe tomorrow. sigh

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

EdisonRex wrote:
I have been thinking about it, but haven't come out with a position yet.


Hadn't thought about that possibility Laughing
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frijitz



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell wrote:
I think the DIY section would benefit from some subsections, but this is something that I really don't want to push, if only it were because splitting it would mean moving a lot of posts to sub-fora and that job would be much lighter if many people could help.

Well, just one opinion, but I don't like the idea of splitting things up. It would mean you have to open up many lists to see everything. People are not as likely to do that, so there would be less overall exposure of each topic. For me it's a big Thumb down

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell wrote:
A suggestion :
    FAQ
    Books, links
    Theory
    PCB offers
    Build thread, help requests
    Build projects, project presentations
    MFOS
    Panels
    Circuit bending
    Micro controller based projects
    Equipment, tools, techniques
    Klee sequencer
    Tube stuff
    Thomas Henry
    Jürgen Haible
    Ian Fritz
    Wild ideas
    Other/general

OK, so if I want to start a thread on a Wild Idea, based on a new Theory, that's a Micro Based Project, for Circuit Bending a Thomas Henry Design, with an interface to a Klee Sequencer, that I'm offering a PCB for ... where do I post it?

No, I'm dead serious!

Very Happy

Ian
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fonik



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 4:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

good points. on the other hand due to the large amount of activities threads get buried very fast.

currently i have 3 shortcuts on my desktop: TH, KLEE & DIY. i would be fine with afew more.

or what about one main forum "DIY" with additional subforums (MFOS, TH, KLEE) on top of the DIY threads, just like this mod helper forum? (hope i was able to express what i actually meant).

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
Well, just one opinion, but I don't like the idea of splitting things up. It would mean you have to open up many lists to see everything. People are not as likely to do that, so there would be less overall exposure of each topic.


That is true. It was my original worry, and still is. And Ian's example of the TH-Klee-Bent thing is a conundrum.

However, the splitting of the Klee thread made things easier for me and the other Kleeists, and removed a lot of chatter for those that couldn't care less about it, making room for other things to stay at the top longer than if they were always getting submerged by the Klee threads.

I like Fonik's idea (and I know exactly what you mean, Fonik). I'm much more likely to click on something that's right there in front of me. For example, I click the Klee and TH subfora because I'm more involved in them, but I find a lot of stuff passes me by in the Ray Wilson Forum, which equally interests me, but but I'm not that involved in.

So, if DIY were made a separate entity unto itself, then there were a minimum of subfora so that each one could be put at the top, I think that would work out fairly well. I think a JH forum would be great, and if it could be clicked at the top of this forum, then I'd be able to click straight to it and peruse the large amount of JH specific things there, and always be able to hit the back button to get back to general synth DIY forum. In other words, it would sort of be the same thing as clicking on a thread, but it would take me to the forum, as opposed to me having to think of looking for that forum. Same for Klee, TH, RW and circuit bending, though the last one on that list is something I have a very minimal interest in.

Thing is, we'd have to keep a reign on the number of subfora, so that area at the top didn't get too big.

As for the conundrum, well - wherever it landed (circuit bending, TH or Klee), that's where it would land. If we worried about that too much, we'd wind up like Robbie the Robot when he was instructed to whack Dr. Morbius.

Cheerios,
Scott

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Also, we should consider asking someone (JH in particular) if he would want something like that.

To return to the idea of the subfora listing at top, if it were arranged like they are now, with the topic of the last post to the side of the page, then it would make it even more obvious that it was there at all.

It all boils down to the fact the people are generally creatures of habit - my habit is to go to DIY Synth Forum and peruse that. The fact that I have the Klee and TH forums at the back of my brain is the only thing that ensures that I look at them, else, I wouldn't really look for them. If that forum is staring me in the face when I get to my first destination, I'm much more likely to (A) Remember its existence and (B) Click on it.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This proposal is going to automatically fragment discussion of any new project into many threads and the cohesion of the topic will be lost. It's fine that you have your Klee subforum. But if somebody starts a new project, then its theory belongs in one place, its PCB offer in another, its building thread in another and its panel in another. You didn't have to worry about that with your project. What would you have done if you had six choices of where to put it, knowing that most people only followed a few topics?

It's true that many posts scroll away quickly. But isn't that just because there isn't much intertest in them? And can't they just be bumped up again if there is a reason to do so? Your proposal is just going to scatter post horizontally rather than vertically.

"As for the conundrum, well - wherever it landed (circuit bending, TH or Klee)"

Or Links, or Theory, or PCB offers, or Build Threads, or Project Presentations, or Panels .....

"that's where it would land. If we worried about that too much, we'd wind up like ... "

In other words, TS. If I were you I'd worry about this more now rather than later.

OK, that's all I have to say. Now where's that little button? .... Ah yes. Click.

Very Happy

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Just for good order, the list I made of sub forums is a list of sub forums that I thought would be "possible". I didn't want to imply that we should have all of those.

The whole question is open as far as I'm concerned, so if we should have sub-forums and if yes what sub-forums, and if so it need not be be restrained to the list I posted either.

I just ran through the current topics thinking in what possible sub forum they might fit.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

frijitz wrote:
But isn't that just because there isn't much intertest in them? And can't they just be bumped up again if there is a reason to do so? Your proposal is just going to scatter post horizontally rather than vertically.


Relative interest ... Very Happy

Yes things can be bumped up, point is that when they are a few pages down that might never happen.

Just as people maybe do not want to wade through several sub-forums they may not want to wade through several pages. A good mix of vertical and horizontal scattering would IMO make it easier to find things of interest.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have had a day of theraputic cleaning of my kitchen. It took all day, I cleaned a lot of surfaces, removed built up grime on the cupboard doors, mopped the floor, and got into details like the fingerprints on the walls and the switch plates, etc. It's a kind of Zen thing, when my kitchen is truly clean, I can think again.

I think we are making too much of these subforums. The Klee was a good move, because it is a e-m thing and will live on as its own subject. I think for now we should leave the rest as they are, until the next Big Thing comes up. I could almost justify Jurgen getting a forum, but I don't think now is the time.

I don't think there has to be a rush to re-organize, though. Caveat, it's my opinion, and worth what we've paid for it.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
This proposal is going to automatically fragment discussion of any new project into many threads and the cohesion of the topic will be lost. It's fine that you have your Klee subforum. But if somebody starts a new project, then its theory belongs in one place, its PCB offer in another, its building thread in another and its panel in another. You didn't have to worry about that with your project. What would you have done if you had six choices of where to put it, knowing that most people only followed a few topics?


Well, that's not quite what I was getting at - a separate forum for panels, PCBs, and projects isn't how the Klee, TH, or Ray Wilson fora are set up now. That would fragment things even more so.

In a way, that's exactly what fragmented the whole Klee thing to begin with - there was a thread on the theory, a thread on the panels, a thread on the build, and a thread on the parts kit. They overlapped considerably and became the very definition of a clusterfuck. The threads became so large as to become practically useless. People began asking the same questions that had been covered already, because the answer was buried in one of those threads somewhere, and they didn't want to read 411 posts to find it. The search function in this software often is little help in such instances.


Quote:
It's true that many posts scroll away quickly. But isn't that just because there isn't much intertest in them? And can't they just be bumped up again if there is a reason to do so? Your proposal is just going to scatter post horizontally rather than vertically.


The idea was not to have them horizontal along the top, but arranged vertically.

I believe one thing that eventually should be addressed (though it would be premature at this point) is that, as traffic increases, the number of topics increases, and the velocity at which they scroll down accelerates. I had this problem when I was going to Aron's Stompbox Forum quite a bit. Often a juicy topic would scroll away in the couple of days I hadn't visited. Unless I went to that second page, all I would see would be 23 variations on the same subject (in this case, the nuances of distortion effect A had over effect B or if a germanium diode was better for this distortion or that).

It's an odd thing, that second page. It's only a click away, but it has the psychological effect of imparting an "old news" feeling to anything that lies on or beyond it. It might as well have happened ten years ago. Laughing

Quote:
"As for the conundrum, well - wherever it landed (circuit bending, TH or Klee)"

Or Links, or Theory, or PCB offers, or Build Threads, or Project Presentations, or Panels .....

"that's where it would land. If we worried about that too much, we'd wind up like ... "

In other words, TS. If I were you I'd worry about this more now rather than later.


We are actually already there. Take the Blacet DSC thing - it turned more into an SN-Voice kind of thing, which is TH. It didn't appear to confuse anybody. I have the same problem sometimes posting a Klee sample with MPS in it. I start to wonder which forum should it go into, then I just make a decision. In any event, we have occasionally moved topics to a more specific forum when the subject shifts more to a particular forum's charter. If that's been a problem for anybody, I haven't detected it.

In a nutshell:

This thread I think has to do with making things more accessible as the traffic increases. In my view, the two main problems either are or will be:

A. A topic will scroll more quickly as traffic increases; eventually things may reach a point where a topic of any interest may expire before its time, because it scrolled to the dreaded second page much more quickly than it may have in earlier, less trafficed time. We are not there yet. We would be much closer to that state, IMO, if the Klee, TH, and MFOS fora had not been created already.

B. A thread that generates a lot of interest will eventually implode under its own weight or split into random fragments all dealing with the same general topic. It's a double-edged sword - the more interesting a topic becomes, the harder it is to find specific information about it. We do have that problem now, in a few instances. A separate forum allows these subjects to spread out, but at the cost of diluting the main topic, which is DIY Synth itself.

As Ian is getting at, the problem is probably not nearly as bad as the cure, at least for now.

Cheerios,
Scott

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