Anti-religious electro?

[Oskar]

Well said, Scott!

[Uncle Krunkus]

I agree wholeheartedly with Scott,
and because I do respect the fact that others here have different views to my own,...... I will not comment further.
This time.

[Wayne Higgins]

woah, come back one afternoon and you guys are arguing the existence of God. I'd hate to see what would be going down if I waited until May. Jeeesss!

John 3:16. I put that on my dad's tombstone. Great quote. He had it on his answer machine. I was damn proud to do it. (He was a baptist preacher, in case ya'll didn't know.)

How do I feel about religion? Tax it. I consider myself a christian because I agree with quite a bit with what that Jesus guy said (or was attributed for saying) a couple of thousand years ago. I consider churches social organizations. I felt absolutely silly sitting around one night with a bunch of white people chanting some raga (or mantra or what ever ya call it). What were they chanting? Not that I don't have a great respect for other religions. Hindu, Islam, Buddhist, Catholics, ect. I don't have much respect for cults like Sceintologists or Mormons or Church of Christ. I have very little tolerance for mega churches that are money making machines.

How do I feel about athiests? Mad magazine put it the best. "There are no athiests during finals week."

I do believe that the whole religion thing is like a lottery, pick the right God and win the prize. Truth comes from inside. Can you accept what you believe in is based on faith. Anyone feeling that they have to argue their own faith (or lack of or total absence of) is missing the point. There are a lot of mistakes, discrepancies, self-contradictions in every bible and every religion. You just have to deal with it if you're a believer, and not get upset when someone points the finger and says "Let us make man in our image" hahaha, that means there is more than one God. I know that.

Maybe that's the point. It's not the belief in God that wigs alot of people out, it's the differences in definition of God.

[Inventor]

Hear hear, Scott! Another brick in the community center!

[Scott Stites]

[seraph]

I don't have much to add because I agree with what other moderators, janitors, administrators already said.
I have often noticed the appreciation by many regular contributors of this forum for the friendly and warming manners generally displayed here. So, those pointing the finger at this thread probably "can`t see the forest for the trees" because are only casual bystanders.
The success of this forum says it all. It shows how much work has been done and is done to keep it afloat. It shows the consideration by all those who contribute their efforts to make it work.
Misunderstandings are common but that's the nature of the medium. When assembling a concoction of people from all over the world, each one with different backgrounds, cultures, languages what else can we expect? Still, we rarely, if ever, have seen "flame wars". It must mean something, I guess.
So, the last thing we need here is the sterilization of the forum.
We "aim to please", nevertheless we can't possibly please everyone. A small quota of unhappy "customers" is physiological.

[blue hell]

Sorry to pick up this old bit, but in the mean time I read up a bit on the developments of political correctness in the UK (in the TV guide out of all places ) and wanted to say Tom (v-un-v) that I can now see your point better ... there seems to be some flushing going on of good British culture ... when I read it right.

[mosc]

[Scott Stites]

[x_x]

Religion does not pull apart people. It's how people RELATE to the religion. I mean, my 5 best friends are: buddhist, agnostic, atheist, protestant and catholic. Heck, I even had a mormon girlfriend. She thought it was funny that I believed in evolution, I thought it was funny she believed in creationism... but our religious beliefs didn't interfere at all.

If someone is offended by a stupid joke, well sorry but you are wrong! Just chill out, if you had strong beliefs of your religion you wouldn't be offended.

Oh, some guy in the internet said something bad about your religion? Cry me a river. I live in a country where 9 of every 10 is a Christian/Catholic, people mock me, discriminate me all the time, and I don't mind; it only makes me laugh; I even make jokes about my beliefs. Oh but I'm just some 21 year old, what do I know? Well buddhist monk Ajam Brahm makes jokes about buddhism at his lectures too. Wow! Jokes have a purpose of making us laugh, think and take life less seriously.

Censor philosophy? Music is expression of philosophy.

My sincere opinion, you can laugh at it.

[v-un-v]

[DrJustice]

[Oskar]

[Oskar]

[bachus]

[kkissinger]

My music is neither religious or anti-religious. I don't think religion (i.e., sectarian beliefs) and music mix very well. Even in my duties as a church organist, I NEVER do "religious music". I think music-making is inherently spiritual, so I don't concern myself with rhetorical content.

A religious or sectarian text or a anti-religious theme will, to me, anchor the music to the trivial. To talk or sing about the divine is not to experience the divine. To sing about "love" is not to experience love. To mock a religion seems wrong to me, even if I disagree with the religion.

Any glimpse of the spiritual realm is fleeting, really. It is a little like eating cereal from a decorated bowl. You can stir the milk away from the bottom of the dish and catch a partial, split-second glimpse of the decoration. I think music has the ability to give us occasional "split second" views of infinity.

Forgive me for being philosophical...

If I were tasked to compose a "religious" work, the project would be doomed. If I set out to create a work that will "transport the listener to a spiritual realm" I would be unable to compose. After all, nothing would seem good enough for a deeply spiritual work and to throw something on the "religious music heap" would seem an act of abandonment.

Thus, I create electro-music the same way that I improvise organ meditations at church: I simply practice my craft and I never worry about the spiritual content. I take it as a matter of faith (not sectarian faith, just plain ol' faith) that the spirit within my music will come through. When I perform compositions, I do my best to do my job and stay out of the way of the music -- again, if the music has something to say, it will say it.

In other words, don't think about love -- just do it.

Music is love-making. At the risk of sounding silly, it is all about love, really. And when one thinks about it -- to work with other musicians -- to hang on their every gesture and to listen to every sound and then respond instantly -- is quite intimate. At such times, I really don't want to ponder any religious or anti-religious sentiments.

For me, there isn't a colder shower than religious music. I avoid thinking about it. I am sure that anti-religious music would have the same effect on me. In other words, I want "arelgious" music.

Why would someone want to convey an anti-religious message unless they have encountered a narrow and hateful "brand"? In the face of such a religion, to create a work of profound peace and serenity may be the most "anti-religious" music possible. However, it goes beyond a "kill them with kindness" meme.

For great music combines harmony and discord and reveals a world where neither harmony or discord can exist without the other. The whole of a piece of music is greater than the sum of the parts. To experience a great piece of music is to view the world from a higher dimension where all the things that don't seem to "fit" on the earthly dimension make sense when viewed from a higher dimension.

And now I will wrap up this post and replace the DPDT bypass switch on my Phase/Flange module. A few more solder joints to make in the pursuit of truth and beauty.

[bachus]

[kkissinger]

Bachus,

I attempt to differentiate between spiritual music and "religious" music.

I should have defined my terms a little better. I consider "religious music" to be stuff like "Glory and Praise" music or little ditties such as "Oh Lord I am not worthy".

The works of the masters, such as Bach and the Renaissance composers, etc etc... has a transcendent quality -- a more "spiritual" quality than, say, a pop-religious tune.

An non-Christian or an atheist could conceivably have a positive response to great music such as the Bach b-minor mass whereas "Jesus Loves Me" would appeal only to a Christian point of view.

Though Bach was a Lutheran pietist his music, at least to my sensibilities, has appeal way beyond the German Lutheran tradition.

Thanks for pointing this out, Bachus.

The melody for "I heard the voice of Jesus say" can stand on its own even without the text. I still find words can get in the way of music. You may consider this to be one of my quirks.

[mosc]

Sometimes it is good to listen to vocal music in a language one can not understand.

What the words mean can make a big difference in how music is received. When the words and their meaning are the primary purpose, the musical expression is intended to enhance or reinforce the message. In the case of Bach and notable others, the music transcends the words and it makes the meaning irrelevant. Mozart's Requiem Mass is ecstasy for believers and atheists alike.

It seems religious music is utilitarian music to support some ritual or to get across some theological message;not to rule out self-expression of personal experiences associated with belief or faith.

It is difficult to conceive of anti-religious music, let alone anti-religious electro, unless it be some sort of protest.

[dewdrop_world]

You guys have got me thinking about Ben Johnston's "Amazing Grace" quartet. If you don't know the piece, don't laugh just 'cause it uses that old tune. I can't do justice to it in words. I'll just say, in terms of expressing the best of the human spiritual experience, it's the real deal.

I'll never forget hearing the Kronos Quartet play it live - I was 16 - the force and ecstatic revelation of this music left me feeling like an invisible force flying off the stage pushed me all the way through the back wall. One of the great formative musical experiences of my life.

James

[kkissinger]

Howard, thank you for your comments. You put into elegant terms the ideas that I was trying to communicate -- that some music is "utilitarian" and other music is transcendent.

One of my favorite works is the Byrd "Ave Verum Corpus". The text is in latin and one experiences the pathos of the music without knowing the words.

"Amazing Grace" is perhaps overdone, but none-the-less poignant given that it was written by a person who decided to turn away from his profession of slave-trading. The words don't really detract from the music, in this case. However, the "Amazing Grace" tune is often heard instrumentally and can stand on its own without the words.

[Octahedra]

[seraph]

[bachus]

[Oskar]