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claviafanman
Joined: Oct 12, 2009
Posts: 9
Location: texas
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 Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 3:45 pm Post subject:
difference between clavia nord lead 2x and clavia rack 2x |
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I've never owned a synth before, but I've decided I want to start "getting into it". I know basically nothing about synths, and have no experience with them. I just decided to get the Clavia nord lead 2x because its the one the Killers use.
Anyway, I can tell that obviously the rack isn't a complete instrument but rather just a rack with knobs. But my question is:
Is it an upgrade for the Clavia nord lead 2x or is it just a different piece of equipment altogether, that there is no need to buy if you have the Clavia nord lead 2x?
and one more question:
Can you make samples with the Clavia nord lead 2x? And is there anything else that I need to know? |
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Wout Blommers
Joined: Sep 07, 2003
Posts: 4529
Location: The Hague - The Netherlands
Audio files: 123
G2 patch files: 12
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| Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 5:08 pm Post subject:
Re: difference between clavia nord lead 2x and clavia rack 2x |
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 claviafanman
A rather foreseeing nickname, regarding your first line 
| claviafanman wrote: | I've never owned a synth before, but I've decided I want to start "getting into it". I know basically nothing about synths, and have no experience with them. I just decided to get the Clavia nord lead 2x because its the one the Killers use.
Anyway, I can tell that obviously the rack isn't a complete instrument but rather just a rack with knobs. |
Well, there is also a lot under the hood, my friend  | Quote: | | But my question is: Is it an upgrade for the Clavia nord lead 2x or is it just a different piece of equipment altogether, that there is no need to buy if you have the Clavia nord lead 2x? |
It's not an upgrade. It's just the synth without the play controllers, which can be rather important. | Quote: | | and one more question: Can you make samples with the Clavia nord lead 2x? |
No, you can't. You'll need a Nord Wave to get that feature... | Quote: | | And is there anything else that I need to know? |
YES! What do you want to do with it? That's what you have to realize first. Maybe the NL2X isn't your thing and you are really in need for a dedicated drum machine, I don't know. If you make a sketch from what you expect form the synth, then we can talk 
Wout |
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claviafanman
Joined: Oct 12, 2009
Posts: 9
Location: texas
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| Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 5:37 pm Post subject:
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Well I just checked the Nord Wave price and I can't afford it. I can barely afford the 2x.
Well I don't think i'll be needing too much drumming stuff-i'm trying to form a band but we'll have a drummer. I'm mainly interested in having one for performing and perhaps recording. I read a few reviews saying the 2x is superb for that, but then again I don't really know anything myself. |
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Wout Blommers
Joined: Sep 07, 2003
Posts: 4529
Location: The Hague - The Netherlands
Audio files: 123
G2 patch files: 12
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| Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:29 pm Post subject:
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| claviafanman wrote: | | Well I just checked the Nord Wave price and I can't afford it. I can barely afford the 2x. |
That's an argument! At the other hand there is the second hand market in which case you are losing less money when you sell it after if you have bought the wrong synth... I think that's even a better argument, also in Texas | Quote: | | Well I don't think I’ll be needing too much drumming stuff-I’m trying to form a band but we'll have a drummer. I'm mainly interested in having one for performing and perhaps recording. I read a few reviews saying the 2x is superb for that, but then again I don't really know anything myself. |
A friendly advice...
I assume you know how to play the keys, although not that important, because one doesn't need the Keyboard to get sound. I googled The Killers and found out there is hardly a keyboard on stage - more a guitar band it seems - and the NordLead is only visible in the studio, which doesn’t mean it’s theirs. Go out in the field and look carefully what other keyboard players are using on stage and talk to them; ask them the ‘ins and outs’… And don’t go mistaken any synth will do in your music and all sounds are there as presets: you have to learn to make these yourself! (If you can’t afford the differences in prizes between gear you certainly can’t afford a special sound designer)
And go searching in all the music stores to get an idea about these strange and wonderful instruments.
Wout |
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claviafanman
Joined: Oct 12, 2009
Posts: 9
Location: texas
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| Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 3:37 pm Post subject:
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Are you sure about them not using it in live performances? Check out this link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y44U05CNfvE
In addition when you go to Brandon Flowers (their lead singer) wikipedia page it says he uses that synth in killers concerts.
Anyway, not only can I "play the keys" but i've been playing the piano since I was five! That won't be a problem.
If I understood you're post right, you're saying the Clavia nord 2x would be right for me? |
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Wout Blommers
Joined: Sep 07, 2003
Posts: 4529
Location: The Hague - The Netherlands
Audio files: 123
G2 patch files: 12
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| Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 1:03 am Post subject:
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| claviafanman wrote: | | Are you sure about them not using it in live performances? Check out this link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y44U05CNfvE In addition when you go to Brandon Flowers (their lead singer) Wikipedia page it says he uses that synth in killers concerts. |
Yep. I only checked the photographs on their site. | Quote: | | Anyway, not only can I "play the keys" but I’ve been playing the piano since I was five! That won't be a problem. |
I wrote "I assume..." To be frank you are writing in your post "I don't know anything" quite a lot. Sounds like "Will you decide for me?" I can't do that | Quote: | | If I understood you're post right, you're saying the Clavia nord 2x would be right for me? |
Oops, there you go again... Surely I have the opinion every boy and girl older than 16 years ought to have a NordLead (whatever version) in the bedroom, so Clavia will make much more wonderful designs.
Seeing the video The Killers don't use the Nord that much. It's prominent in front on stage, but the lead singer only adds some FM to a single note. What do you want to do with it? Just like The Killers to us it as an effect? I'll give you a video too about a Dutch band like The Killers for whom I work sometimes making sounds on the Lead: Buckshot. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVrXQyh7_ko The Nord intro is in a way more prominent. Is this what you want to do with it? But the Lead can do much more. Think about the reason The Killers use the synth. The main reason (beside being beautiful red) would probably be the mix, which is concerning the NordLead very wonderful to do: it cuts through the overall sound.
But again: take a look at e-bay and other second hand markets. You won’t fall to hard and you certainly won’t blame me
Wout |
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claviafanman
Joined: Oct 12, 2009
Posts: 9
Location: texas
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| Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 3:09 pm Post subject:
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| Sorry I should have been more specific. I plan to use it in a rock band. Not in a synth-pop band such as pet shop boys. I want to be the keyboard-synth player of a rock band. Does that answer your question? |
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Wout Blommers
Joined: Sep 07, 2003
Posts: 4529
Location: The Hague - The Netherlands
Audio files: 123
G2 patch files: 12
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| Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 3:47 pm Post subject:
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Funny, why am I thinking: "Does it answer your question?"
I mean...
Just start and get some experiences.
Buy a synth and try not to lose too much money when selling it second hand, so buy second hand.
The NordLead is a nice synth, but not the easiest one to start with.
I'm sure when you buy another one there will come a day you want a red one too!
Don't follow leaders!
Take a look at bands in your neighborhood and talk about synths.
Get one to lend from a friend so you can try and learn to understand these kinds of instruments. The NordLead is too wonderful to be stamped as useless because you're not ready for it yet.
Beware you are dealing with synthesis, subtractive synthesis in particular and that's not easy.
If you buy an easier one, maybe that already the best buy for you because it does everything you need to make music.
Wout |
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claviafanman
Joined: Oct 12, 2009
Posts: 9
Location: texas
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| Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 4:19 pm Post subject:
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so basically you're saying the one i'm wanting would be to complex for someone that's new to synths. That's probably true, I mean the thing has 26 knobs...
Perhaps a Microkorg XL? Would that be good for starters? |
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fac
Joined: Dec 08, 2007
Posts: 162
Location: Mexico
G2 patch files: 1
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| Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 8:54 pm Post subject:
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| claviafanman wrote: | so basically you're saying the one i'm wanting would be to complex for someone that's new to synths. That's probably true, I mean the thing has 26 knobs...
Perhaps a Microkorg XL? Would that be good for starters? |
No, no, no, no, no.
With all respect to Wout, whose opinion is always valuable, I think you were on the right track from the start: the Nord Lead is a great keyboard for a rock band. I'm sure plenty of bands use one for they keyboard parts. Radiohead uses one for strings and pads. Weezer uses an MS2000, which has a similar architecture than the Nord Lead 2X (but IMO doesn't sound as good).
Sure, it has a ton of knobs, but that actually makes it easier to use than not having them. You may not know the basics of sound synthesis now, but the knobs on the NL2X will invite you to learn. And while you learn to program your own sounds, you can use preset sounds: strings, organs, electric pianos, drones, leads, etc. As long as you don't expect to get an acoustic piano sound out of it, it should do you fine.
_________________
My music: http://cdbaby.com/all/fac |
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Wout Blommers
Joined: Sep 07, 2003
Posts: 4529
Location: The Hague - The Netherlands
Audio files: 123
G2 patch files: 12
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| Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 9:30 pm Post subject:
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Well, my point is 'go for it', but do it as cheap as possible: go second hand! Sure, the NordLead is one of the most popular synths which are used in the pop scene, but I have the feeling claviafanman himself isn't so sure. Maybe the money spend to a second hand NordLead and a second hand Korg or something would be a better thing to do. Claviafanman will need sound reinforcement too, special whem starting a band. That's my point. Think it over and listen carefully to opinions from others. Damn easy to say; "Sure, buy a new Lead and buy it in my shop!", although I sell cheese instead of synths, at least, my wife does
(See attachment for all the Dutch and Belgium people on the forum)
Wout
| Description: |
Print it and put it on your window!
My wife isn't the one in the middle :D |
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1.05 MB |
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361 Time(s) |
| This image has been reduced to fit the page. Click on it to enlarge. |
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claviafanman
Joined: Oct 12, 2009
Posts: 9
Location: texas
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| Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 3:31 pm Post subject:
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| fac wrote: | | claviafanman wrote: | so basically you're saying the one i'm wanting would be to complex for someone that's new to synths. That's probably true, I mean the thing has 26 knobs...
Perhaps a Microkorg XL? Would that be good for starters? |
No, no, no, no, no.
With all respect to Wout, whose opinion is always valuable, I think you were on the right track from the start: the Nord Lead is a great keyboard for a rock band. I'm sure plenty of bands use one for they keyboard parts. Radiohead uses one for strings and pads. Weezer uses an MS2000, which has a similar architecture than the Nord Lead 2X (but IMO doesn't sound as good).
Sure, it has a ton of knobs, but that actually makes it easier to use than not having them. You may not know the basics of sound synthesis now, but the knobs on the NL2X will invite you to learn. And while you learn to program your own sounds, you can use preset sounds: strings, organs, electric pianos, drones, leads, etc. As long as you don't expect to get an acoustic piano sound out of it, it should do you fine. |
I already have a nice digital piano (a RD-300 GX) and its sound quality is REALLY nice. I doubt I would use the Nord Lead 2x's acoustic piano sound even if it had one.
I still haven't totally made up my mind but what you just said has made me lean pretty heavily towad the Nord Lead 2x |
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claviafanman
Joined: Oct 12, 2009
Posts: 9
Location: texas
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| Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 3:34 pm Post subject:
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| Wout Blommers wrote: | Well, my point is 'go for it', but do it as cheap as possible: go second hand! Sure, the NordLead is one of the most popular synths which are used in the pop scene, but I have the feeling claviafanman himself isn't so sure. Maybe the money spend to a second hand NordLead and a second hand Korg or something would be a better thing to do. Claviafanman will need sound reinforcement too, special whem starting a band. That's my point. Think it over and listen carefully to opinions from others. Damn easy to say; "Sure, buy a new Lead and buy it in my shop!", although I sell cheese instead of synths, at least, my wife does
(See attachment for all the Dutch and Belgium people on the forum)
Wout |
If I can get a used nord lead 2x i'd do that, but i'm too snobby for a nord lead. After I buy the Nord lead 2x i'll immediately begin saving up for a microkorg xl, preferably a used one. Buying used is definently a good idea, I would have to agree with you on that one. |
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claviafanman
Joined: Oct 12, 2009
Posts: 9
Location: texas
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| Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 4:48 pm Post subject:
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One final question about the clavia lead 2x-
Does it have a good string section? I was wanting to play songs like Bittersweet Symphony and Viva la Vida. |
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Wout Blommers
Joined: Sep 07, 2003
Posts: 4529
Location: The Hague - The Netherlands
Audio files: 123
G2 patch files: 12
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| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 12:46 am Post subject:
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A final answer?
I think not...
The NordLead2X doesn't have a 'string section' at all. In my opinion the synth isn't designed to do this.
The best way to get a string sound is a string orchestra.
Almost best are those special sample packs you can buy and I think they are as expensive as the NordLead itself and you need another instrument, like the Nord Wave or the Electro3.
Or... if you are a master of synthesis... Maybe you can come up with something which has the same feeling to replace it.
As I wrote before I don't want you to be disappointed about the Lead.
Anyway I hope you are a nicer guy than that lead singer in Bittersweet Symphony
Wout |
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melmac
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
Posts: 27
Location: Schleswig-Holstein (Germany)
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 12:25 am Post subject:
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Hello claviafanman,
please allow me to add just some thoughts that came to me during this discussion. Perhaps they can help you with your decision.
My opinion is:
•The Nord Lead (which ever) is definitely not designed as an instrument to reproduce natural musical instruments or samples.
•The Nord Lead is a “pure” synthesizer, i.e. an electronical device, controlled by a keyboard, to produce/create sounds based on the classical synthesizer “raw material” like oscillators, modulation sources, filters, amplifier, envelopes etc., and it also has a classical “user interface” = knobs for each parameter. (Therefore there are no weighted keys - it is a synthesizer, not a piano! – and also no effect section.)
•Of course, you are able to build up sounds that are similar to string, brass, Rhodes, organ sounds and so on.
If you are looking for a “ready to play-instrument” that
•has a big variety of sounds/instruments (classical synths, strings, brass, pads, lead sounds…)
•is easy to use live on stage (more like a nearly-preset instrument where you can store and find the programs with real names and in groups/types of instruments)
•allows you to vary the sounds in a certain manner
the Nord Lead (which ever) is perhaps not the best solution for you.
But on the other hand: the Nord Lead could still be the right instrument for you:
•The sound is very unique and you can make hard and Moog-like sounds that are very good in a rock band. Also you can “make” warm pads and “strings”, wide and sharp “brasses”, spacey and mad sounds of all kinds. The possibilities are endless.
•It is a very good instrument if you want to “assemble” sounds from the beginning and if you are tired of scrolling through dozens of menus in small displays in so-called Workstations.
•For the live situation the keyboard version of the Nord Lead would be the better choice because of the “special MIDI-behaviour” of the Rack device. The keyboard version allows you to layer and split the sounds quickly and easily. With a Rack model from an external keyboard this is slightly tricky (as I also have learned…).
Like Wout recommended: Test the Nord Lead and look perhaps for a second hand device.
My conclusion: The Nord Lead requires the “will to turn the knobs” and you have to accept that it “only” is a pseudo-analogue synthesizer, no more, no less. Don't be blinded by the cult status of the Nord Lead.
But of course: the sounds are great, the hardware is very solid and the handling is exemplary. A cult status doesn't fall out of the blue sky!
Make your own decision – good luck!
melmac |
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claviafanman
Joined: Oct 12, 2009
Posts: 9
Location: texas
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 5:43 pm Post subject:
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| Well like I mentioned before I already have a RD-300 GX that can do a lot of the things you were saying such as "wide variety of sounds" and "easy to access" and such. So I figure it would be stupid to to buy a synth that's pratically the same as the digital piano I already have. Therefore, I'm probably best of with the clavia lead 2x since it's so much different than the keyboard I already own. |
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