Dopefer Basic Set Up No. 2

[pbanken]

Hi everyone!

This is my first thread in this forum, I found this place snooping the net for information concerning modular stuff. Looks like quite an active community, so I'll post my first question right away. Maybe you'd like to share your opinion!

I've been toying around with the idea of entering the highly addictive world of modular synthesis for quite some time now, but, what a surprise, the endless number of options of how to start with a first set up confuse me to no end.

I've been in contact to the very, very friendly guys from Schneider's Büro, who sent me two different schematics for a beginner's set up, but these two set ups featured a lot of compromises, mostly based due to the fact that cases for modulars are a bit of a pain (necessary, but expensive, I'm not a carpenter, I got two left hands when it comes to cutting wood).

Roughly one third above my original price range, I found the two Doepfer Basis Set Ups (specifically the Version No. 2 with a Midi Interface). Now it looks like this might be the solution I've been looking for, grinding my teeth since it's a bit more than I originally wanted to spend, but okay, that should set me up for the first few months, shouldn't it?

What's your opinion concerning the Basic Set Up No. 2 from Doepfer?

Although I know my way around synths, mmodularone are new terrain for me, so there is a steep learning curve involved, but I'm 100% sure that I modulars are my cup of tea, so I won't be selling my stuff after three weeks of hopeless patching ...

Are there any Basic Set Up schematics from other users to be found on the web? Would you share your opinion?

Thank you very much in advance for your advice, hopefully you can help me out!

Cheers, pbanken

[Adam-V]

Hi pbanken

Where you start will depend on what do you want to do with your modular. If you want to make music with self evolving patches for example you might not need the midi interface but would instead benefit from more modulation sources.

Tell us what sort of sounds you would like to make with your modular and then we can give a more informed opinion.

Also remember that you don't necessarily need to start with a full rack of modules to get going. It is modular after all so you can start with a system that is within your budget and then, as you get to know your system, add more modules as you need and can afford them.

Cheers,
Adam-V

[pbanken]

Hi there!

And first of all, thank you very much for your reply! Now, what am I looking for in a modular synth?

First and foremost, I really like synths that are a bit noisy and experiemental (that's probably not the correct spelling, but I'm not a native speaker). I absolutely love my DSI MonoDesktopEvo, because it combines that noisy strain of chaotic possibilities with a good portion of chance.

I'm looking for a modular system that will allow me to get deeper into creating analog sounds & bleeps from scratch (I just can't get my head around soft synths, I need the hands-on approach, and Midi Controllers just don't work for me).

When I make music, I'm not really a guy who looks for big melodic symphonies but rather a straight beat with modulated sequences, bleeps and scratches ... less is more, and the harder I have to work for a certain sound, the more I appreciate it. In the beginning, I was fond of the presets of all the Native Instr.'s, e.g., but you probably know how tired you can get from these ...

So all in all, I would like to start a modular synth because I a) love to create sounds (all kinds of sounds) and experimenting with hardware, b) I want to use my hands and c) I need to hear a certain roughness and imperfection.

However, there are two things which led me to the Doepfer Basis Sys. II ... first of all, I need the Midi module, since I want to integrate it into my existing set up, where Live runs the clock (although I already got my eyes on the Doepfer Sequencers).

Second, if I start now with a very basic set up, it'll probably just end up costing a bit less than the Basic Set Up No. II. A few hundred Euros ... since Doepfer gives you a bit of reduction on the individual prices of the Basic Set Up No. II, I thought of spending a bit more right from the beginning and not regretting later on that I could've saved a few bucks at the start of the system.

Does this reply make sense to you?!? I'm a bit tired from work, so hopefully I'm not mashed up in my head ...

I'd love to hear from you how you would start out with a basic set of modules ...

All the best, pbanken

[EdisonRex]

pbanken!

I read this last night but I didn't reply because I wanted to understand just what a "Basic System 2 (or II)" is... Trouble is, I can't find a link, despite what I consider to be good Google-skills. I could make some educated guesses at what a Basic System is, though.

Have you seen the Dark Energy? There's a Basic System and it's pretty cheap. But it is basic, and will have a very identifiable and "signature" voice, because of what it is. That said, I think they're pretty cool and compact VC-voices like that have been around forever.

if you want to plunk down a kiloeuro or so a smallish Doepfer, and you have a good idea about what you want it to sound like, there are probably many other options. It was already said, but you can build your own "Basic System" with a little homework and patience.

Not having knowingly heard your music, I don't know what to suggest, as "noisy and expermental" covers a lot of territory here. I think I am trying to understand more what timbres you want.

[modulator_esp]

Basic System 2

http://www.doepfer.de/a100s_e.htm#A-100 Basic System 2



The A-100 Basic System 2 is nearly identical with to the Basic System 1 but includes a MIDI-Interface. The modules A-150 (VC Switch) and A-162 (Trigger Delay) are replaced with with the MIDI interface A-190 and a 4HP blind plate

Basic System 1

2x Standard VCO A-110
2x ADSR A-140
2 x LFO A-145
1x Ring Modulator A-114
1 x Audio Divider A-115
1 x VC Waveform Processor A-116
1 x Noise/Random A-118
1 x VCF1 A-120 (24dB low pass 1)
1 x VCF2 A-121 (12dB multimode filter)
Remark: Module A-121 will be placed in the basic systems during summer 2009 by the A-106-6 XP Filter. The production of the A-121 has to be stopped because of the no longer available special circuit CEM3320.
1 x linear VCA A-130
1 x logarithmic VCA A-131
1 x linear Mixer A-138a
1 x logarithmic Mixer A-138b
1 x Dual S&H A-148
1 x Dual VC Switch A-150
1 x Trigger Divider A-160
1 x Trigger Sequencer A-161
1 x Dual Trigger Delay A-162
1 x Dual Slew Limiter A-170
1 x Multiple I A-180
30 patch cables (mixed)

[Antimon]

pbanken!

I get the impression you've read up and are focused on the Doepfer, but if you're after wild stuff and feel like trying out a soldering iron I can highly recommend the semi-modulars from MusicFromOuterSpace.com. My SoundLab Ultimate is having a great time together with the single Curetronic rack of 13 modules that I have on my shelf. A good thing with this setup is that I can use the power source from the Curetronic with the SoundLab.

/Stefan

[a100user]

Hi pbanken,

When I decided to get back into modulars - about 10 years ago - the Basic II is the system I purchased. If I could go back and change anything then it would have been changing it to a Basic I system. I never liked the A-190 midi interface.

It is a great system capable of a wide range of sounds plus the ability to process external sources.

The biggest problem with buying the system is the effect it has on your wallet, these systems have a bad habit of growing - see below.

I will say though that there has never been a more exciting time to be looking at Euro Format modulars - so many makers producing so many exciting products. My system is about to grow again.



David

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[pbanken]

Hey now!

And thanks a lot for your comments! Especially A100user, great pictures, and many thanks for your words. Just one thing making me wonder right now, your regret concerning the Midi Module in the Basic Set Up No. 2 (the B.S.U. 1 doesn't feature a Midi Module, instead you get another one):

How do you integrate Modular Synths into an existing set up where Ableton Live or an MPC 1000 run the Master Clock? Since I don't own a sequencer which gives out CV / Gate info, I'm kind of stuck with the Midi option, am I not?

Concerning an earlier post, regarding my style of music and the sounds I'm looking for: Indeed, noisy / experimental was probably a bit vague ... and with regards to the stuff in this forum, I'm probably old fashioned / out-of-line ...

What I'm basically enjoying most is taking a 4/4 beat and re-creating the sounds and feel of my favourite House Music producers (be this Maurizio / Basic Channel, Redshape, guys from the OstgutTon imprint, Jus-Ed, Anton Zap, Frank Martiniq, Amê & the Innervisions guys, Brothers Vibes or the early masters, like Carl Craig, Jeff Mills, U.R., Cajmere, early Plastikman ...). I basically like stripped down, sparse dance music ...

So far, I've kept my hardware stuff pretty limited to a few basic things (a MFB drum machine, an AcidLab 303 clone, a Microkorg, a Mackie mixer, a pair of Genelecs), but I've always been fascinated when entering a good friend's studio (he once owned a Vostok, a Vermona Perfourmer, some Doepfers, an Andromeda, etc.) ... I was just deeply interested with all these possibilities of tweaking and creating original sounds in a Dance Music context (so many preset sharks producing records there ...). And when I saw the Portishead report on Sonic State, it was decided ... it have to try this myself.

So, what I'm basically looking for, is an inspiring piece of equipment, which will challenge me and slowly grow with my needs. When it comes to the timbre or nature of sounds, I'm not looking for streamlined booming presets with tons of effects already included but rather edgy (in a positive way) and original sounds.

Question is: Would someone come up with a list we might discuss here, which isn't as big as the Basic Set Up No. 2 posted above but offers more possibilities than the Dark Energy? I would highly appreciate it!

Thanks a lot again,

pbanken

[Antimon]

An alternative to a standard MIDI/CV module is to get a Motu Audio interface (I use an Ultralite) or other DC-coupled interface (or is it non-DC coupled - I can never remember). Then you can use Motu Volta, that other free CV outputting program (silence something) or hack something up in Max, Supercollider, Chuck or whatever (I use ChucK). These interfaces can output steady CV voltages on their audio outputs, that you can plug into CV inputs on your modular. My Ultralite outputs -4V to +4V, which according to the 1V/octave standard means I can play 8 octaves.

The good thing about this is that you can work around the limits imposed by the MIDI protocol (128 control values means zipper effects), if you want. The bad thing is that no matter what you choose (Volta might be pretty smooth though costly) it may take a bit of tinkering to make things work if you're deeply trained on MIDI.

Not for everyone, but it works for me.

/Stefan

[a100user]

Hi

If you take either of the basic systems you do have a sequencer. The a160, A161 and a A138 can be patched for a 4 note step sequencer that is huge fun and great for 4/4 stuff.

For MIDI duties today I use a Kenton Pro 4. However I will be going down the Silent Way route as I use a MOTU 828 as an audi interface.

David

[Per]

Just a few thoughts:
The standard VCOs from Doepfer has no Linear FM input, so I would exchange one of them to Analogue Systems VCO or Doepfer High End VCO or something similar. The Doepfer filter I think is the vactrole filters, I would change one of the filters to vactrole based.
The gate delay I find not so useful, it is not necessary in such a setup.
The best "bang for the bucks" in Doepfer modules is the A-149 Random generator. Alocng with the random gate module, it is extremely useful and musical
Good Luck
Per

[Jo.be]

Again a few thoughts on modular systems :

Most if not all are (still !!!) monophonic.
Many don't play with velocity or need a few modules to recreate that function.
Sounds can't be stored, so every nice sound you ever make you'll have to write
down or know excatly how to rebuild and be able to rely on your system.
The rest is already told here.

I've been working on Modular Systems like the Roland for years...
That's just my experience and conclusion.

[Antimon]

[ndkent]

I started off with a Basic System 1 about 12 years ago. I already had a Kenton Midi to CV interface. I have no complaints about buying it and haven't even sold off any part of it. That is a good thing about modular gear in the last decade or so, you can usually re-sell it for around 80% of new price give or take a bit. Not that I'm always looking to sell things all the time but it's less stressful not to think so much that next year's model will be much cheaper and do twice as much like digital gear. Also I can in theory buy a used module from someone trustable and sell it to someone else if I don't really like it that much or could do better with something else.

As to some specific complaints. I've had no problem with the MIDI to CV interface module. It's not super complicated and just as one channel but it works for me and is convenient to have in the case. The VCOs are basic but get the job done. You can spend many times their price and get better VCOs but you may not need them right away. True about linear FM, though I'd think you would need an extra ADSR and VCA to utilize that feature. That's not reason enough to say yes or no to that feature, but it does say that as you get more features you tend to need more utility modules to utilize those features. You get a basic Moog style filter that isn't the best Moog copy but has a usable sound as well as a multimode filter, so that's a good combination to start with since the multimode gives you extra filter mode choices. Most people have different tastes in filters so it's very hard to say one is better than another. It's funny how the vactrol filter is in vogue right now. Probably 95% of synth builders ignored them for decades even though Buchla was using decades ago when he wasn't as trendy. They are indeed cool, but not a requirement by any means, more an interesting alternative.

Anyway I'd probably do the same thing again. Get a system that isn't huge but not too small either, the Basic System 2 is a good example. Work with it a while. No planning at all is not a good way to start with modular synths but some people spend huge amounts of time planning and I think they sometimes get frustrated or nothing lives up to their expectations. Nothing is really fast with modulars so you need patience. But also you really need to use some modules to learn what you like and what you might want to upgrade.

[pbanken]

Hi everyone!

First of all, thank you all very, very much for your advice and your opinions! It's greatly appreciated, and I'm happy to say that the planning stages are now behind me ... it's done, all in all, and I'm extremly happy with the outcome.

Simultaneously while reading this post and stuff at other forums, I talked to Schneider's Büro in Berlin, it started out as a simple request to them from my side, but quickly developed into a very friendly planning dialogue with a lot of help from their end. Basically, they said that the Basic Set Up No. II from Doepfer is a nice piece of gear, but quite Synth-like, meaning that it would probably be comparable to buying a 'regular' hardware synth ... I decided against the Basic Set Up and went in a totally different direction:

First of, I got a Dark Energy at a very, very good price (my unit was a test unit for a German music magazine). Next up, I chose a MFB DIY rack, with an included MIDI - CV/GATE Interface.

Modules-wise I got me a Cwejman VCO-2RM, a Doepfer Noise, a Mutiple, a Doepfer mixer as well an a VCA, a Wiard Borg Filter and a MATHS.

They are sitting snuggingly on my workdesk right now, everything hooked up nicely (though the MATHS still puzzles me), and I'm very, very happy and excited with the sounds I create. True, I spent a few bucks, but it was totally worth it. This set up gives me quite a challenge to explore and learn.

Maybe someone could share a few tips for the MATHS with me, but all in all, I'm just grinning away while patching the thing up and tweeking the knobs ...

Thanks again to all of you,

cheers, pbanken

[Antimon]

Sounds like great fun - I'm envious!

/Stefan