Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:11 pm Post subject:
Bouncing balls
Instead verbal ball bouncing i would like to use this old graphic and aswell musical fx ( see lemur and others ) with the nord modular.
Just...
A not so easy goal... especially when the solution should be as economical than possibel...
Its about gravity and elasticy...speed acceleration and changing directions...
There you go, that should do as a starting point. It's been a while since I did that one but if you have questions about something I could look it up. _________________ Kassen
Oh, and gravity in a system like this means adding a number to the vertical speed.
Since in my demo speed is always a positive number you might be able to get away with increasing vertical friction for balls going up and making "friction" increase the speed for balls going down.
It's fun but memory is REALY tight. _________________ Kassen
yep.. a real physical model would be the thing... but how to do with the G2?
I cant belive that i once was good in vector math...its all gone..
Actually, mine is a physical model. A model of symplified highschool physics but still. Also; it uses vectors, sorta kinda. the ball is represented by two coordinates, then two independant inertias (x and Y) make it move. _________________ Kassen
i still havent my g2 connected because of installing a new desk again
but as it seems booth models need to be combined to do something like in the groteian link i posted... When i understand cassens link wright its about pong... so moving and bouncing against walls in an enviroment without gravity...
While the one from Ian is just letting the ball bounce from a surface but under the law of gravity..
wright ?
bouncing between walls and the possebility to switch on and of gravity...
like in the Groteian toy i linked in the first message.
I hope i find some time to experiment with your patches later.
my goal is to get something playable out of the bouncing ball fx...
I like the semi random, natural structures you get with the Groteian toy.
Yes, sorry Kassen.
I was referring to my original G2 patch, that simulated the sound of a ball dropping on a hard surface then bouncing, but didn't model it. Your patch is great, just that it is a top down view with friction instead of gravity.
The Groteian toy is neat but I think it's appeal comes from watching the collisions. Can flash do midi out? Maybe I should learn.
Another variation, uses midi send to play whatever is in slot B.
Have added a gate time modify section so that gates get shorter the faster the bounce. Adjust the notes in the scale, gravity and elasticity to taste.
I know i had that in scool just 25 years ago...but i cant remember a thing :-/
I've had it in school 6 years ago and also can't remember a thing I really can't tell if the balls elasticity could be compared in any way to Hook's law of spring force (especially something called "wspólczynnik sprezystosci" in polish - I don't know the exact translation - spring constant (?) - it's labelled as a "k" in Hook's law).
[edit] - I had to remove my polish letters - they were all "łżć" and stuff
ok.. at least a term like "Hook's law of spring force" indicates that there is a somewhat difference balistic behaviour...
I just try to understand Ians patch...havent had a look to Kassens yet...
but...within the next hour the speakers are online again and i can switch on the G2 again...
I allready can say that this leads in the wright direction for me...
Yes, sorry Kassen.
I was referring to my original G2 patch, that simulated the sound of a ball dropping on a hard surface then bouncing, but didn't model it. Your patch is great, just that it is a top down view with friction instead of gravity.
The Groteian toy is neat but I think it's appeal comes from watching the collisions. Can flash do midi out? Maybe I should learn.
Oh, wait, you want to physically model the sound of the ball? That would be beyond me.
I'm not sure about Flash and MIDI, I think there is a version (director or shockwave or whatever) that can, maybe just from MID files. Since flash is meant to work with Ethernet it might be easier to use OSC as a go-between? _________________ Kassen
when a weight hangs to a metal spring... and you move it up an let fall down...
is this the same modell as the one Ian just patched... with reduced gravity or so...
Or is it a different modell ?
I know i had that in scool just 25 years ago...but i cant remember a thing :-/
There is actually a module in the G2 that does this; a state variable filter is also a perfectly good physical model of a mass and a spring. I had some good text on this around here from back when I was trying to use mass-spring models for interface mapping, you may want to do a google. It's not all that easy though. Basically the different outputs of the filter will represent things like the mass's location and it's velocity and so on.
Sadly all of my attempts to do this i the G2 were in the Engine that I gave back to Rob and it got re-initialised. pritty soon I concluded that this was a fun field but that the G2 isn't the most suitable system for this. Patches soon become unwieldy, it would all be much, much easier with something like classes or meta modules. I also found that this works MUCH better in systems that use floating point. In the G2 it tended to become unstable, might've been rounding errors or something, I'm fairly certain my math was sound (no pun intended). Back then I was prototyping in the G2, then quickly moving on to other systems, perhaps I shuld try again with ChucK now.
Oh, wait, you want to physically model the sound of the ball?
That is an interesting thought, modal vibrations on a spherical surface .
What I mean is the original G2 patch simply clocked a binary counter which was then used to shorten the distance between, and lower the level of successive boings.
The new patch uses parameters for gravity, acceleration and elasticity coefficient as described in the first link. It also adds friction(decay) to prevent the endless bouncing at the end. The original link used a bail out test but that looked a little unnatural.
This bouncing reminds me of the new Sony TV advertisement, with all the coloured balls bouncing down a street in San Francisco. Nice, but the slogan 'Colour, like no other' seems to have been stolen from the creators of the NTSC system.
"Bucephalus Bouncing Ball" to be clear... anyway, I thought the whole topic was about something different than a sound of gummy ball striking a concrete floor... (although Aphex Twin's ball was a bit different, and the concrete was something else hehe don't try to imitiate this guy - most of the time he's composing after a HUGE help of mushrooms and other great chemical specimens you know...) I'd never dare to copy anything he does...
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