IP, Randal and WTF?

Scott Stites · Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 7:02 am Post subject: IP, Randal and WTF?

From the Dim C thread:

blue hell · Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 7:27 am Post subject: Re: IP, Randal and WTF?

Scott Stites · Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 8:06 am Post subject:

blue hell · Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 9:08 am Post subject:

[quote="Scott Stites"]

blue hell · Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 9:14 am Post subject: Re: IP, Randal and WTF?

Scott Stites · Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 9:29 am Post subject:

Oh, I hadn't noticed that post. I would wager a thru-zero VCO would be a greater undertaking than the TH QFG by an order of magnitude, so I would imagine the increase in time to get it actually delivered would be perhaps just as great. IOW, I don't expect to live that long, so I've lost what little interest I had in the ZO Very Happy

It does look to be ethical, though.

EdisonRex · Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 1:41 pm Post subject:

Someone is projecting, in order to justify/rationalize his own activities.

No prizes for guessing.

There is a whole area which needs to be addressed, which we'd need a resident lawyer to educate us in, and we don't have one, and I am not going to post publicly to point out.

There is a big difference between law and ethics, and I suspect that the folks reading this post know, if not the difference, that at least there is on that exists.

He certainly gets into almost ranting.

Anyway, I would caution us all to stay calm and collected. One thing I do note is that people will PM when they have questions, and the PM traffic is as valuable, possibly more so than this channel, for guiding people who are also spotting inconsistency. Easy does it.

I would suggest we refrain from commenting on his posts for the weekend at least, and let him draw attention. The community is cool, and sees more than we give them credit for.

I of course defer to all who have more clue...

EdisonRex · Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 1:45 pm Post subject:

One other thing, is he's totally ignorant on fair use. Building one offs has always been legal.

But again, he's on a tear and trying to justify some other end, I think.

Be careful.

v-un-v · Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 2:11 pm Post subject:

Scott Stites · Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 2:12 pm Post subject:

EdisonRex · Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 2:19 pm Post subject:

EdisonRex · Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 2:27 pm Post subject:

elektro80 · Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 3:36 pm Post subject: Re: IP, Randal and WTF?

EdisonRex · Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 3:41 pm Post subject: Re: IP, Randal and WTF?

elektro80 · Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 4:00 pm Post subject:

http://www.uaudio.com/products/software/UAD/dim-d/index.html

In the case of the "Dimension" products, these are now mythical. Roland will never reissue a 1:1 remake using the same parts, however what Roland will be doing is to issue all sorts of Roland branded certified authentic digital versions.

I think any clone of the "Dimension" products should be labelled "inspired by" or something of the sort. Roland is very protective about the brand.

Just for the record, the UAD-1 Roland branded plugins are really good.

elektro80 · Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 4:07 pm Post subject:

What I´m trying to say here is that with the big players the brand is everything.

So.. take any decent and "free" VCO design and do some basic tweaks ( some might even be undesirable" to most of us.. and then "you" ( imagine you are Roland or Korg or..) call this a "SuperFly Chimney Osc" and trademark the name. See?

EdisonRex · Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 4:26 pm Post subject:

Well, you can always call it something else and nobody would necessarily even notice. Instead of Dimension, call it Instance or This or something.

Yeah well.

I have a hard time thinking that Roland even notices DIY. They haven't noticed it before, especially when we were trying to help out the much more modern VM series mixers.

Ah well. Devils advocate.

elektro80 · Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 4:46 pm Post subject:

Thing is that the big players these days are into digital custom jobs in a way that makes outright cloning hard.. and the main issue is still the brand and the trademarks.

Roland simply doesn´t care unless you make market a Supersaw Osc synth.. and probably even then they might only see this as part of the myth that they are trying to construct around their newer gear anyways.

As for IP infringement and all that, the only victims are the small players. This is something that Roland wouldn´t notice, but it could kill a small bedroom based business.

blue hell · Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 5:41 pm Post subject:

fonik · Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 8:49 am Post subject:

this whole thing is so exhausting. i just wanted to have some balance in the daily routine. i mean it's a hobby, it's fun and no business - at least for me. i just want to learn and to share and to help. am i totaly wrong here? (sigh)
is there a way to stop this discussion in the forum or should it be discussed eventually? do we need a common settlement about thics and law?

Scott Stites · Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 10:10 am Post subject:

I know how you feel, Matthias. I came to the conclusion yesterday that I was just letting the whole thing get to me way too much. If it was just me, personally, I wouldn't care one way or another in the first place. And, as it turns out, I just wasn't giving the electro-music peeps enough credit to realize they probably can spot a treadmill of futility when they see it, either.

Synth DIY has been going on for years without these issues/worries, and other than a few flare-ups here and there (like the SID Box thing), things seem to regulate themselves quite naturally. Issues like this are usually non-issues if the goal is like yours (and mine) - it's a hobby, it's fun and a it's a creative outlet. IMO, it's only an issue if one is in it to make a buck. Or one has some aribitrary point to prove. In either case, it goes from being something joyful to something more drudgelike and unappealing PDQ. This issue is a hamster wheel that generates the power that drives the grind wheel for somebody's axe. I've got better things to do with my time.

As Stein points out, the big boys generally recognize DIYers as a non-issue to them (if they recognize them at all), unless we start stomping on their trademarks en masse. The IP us analog guys are into is to them what the Model T is to Ford. If a DIY Dim D or Dim C were to be put into gear, the numbers probably wouldn't match a fraction of a percent of the people getting the plug-ins.

The real IP concerns that seem to show up don't come from the Rolands or the Yamahas - they come from within the Synth DIY community (again, the SID Box thing). I can't recall a single case of Roland suing some schmuck sitting in in his basement building one of their Model T's with obsolete parts.

The subject has wrecked the DimC thread, I thought about splitting it off, but I'm not sure where it would go. Maybe we should create a soapbox forum for such things. Laughing

blue hell · Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 10:41 am Post subject:

Scott Stites · Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 12:11 pm Post subject:

First part of the post was on topic, but the bulk wasn't, so I used the big scissors.

blue hell · Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 12:23 pm Post subject:

EdisonRex · Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 12:28 pm Post subject: